Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to youo Odyssey Podcast, where your guides, Tara and Karen invite you on a transformative journey toward wholeness and personal growth.
Each week, we'll discuss topics related to the human experience and offer insights to help you along the way.
Please note, this podcast should not replace medical care or advice.
We are not licensed healthcare professionals or mental health therapists.
If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe so you don't miss out on our future discussions.
So, explorers, let's dive into today's episode.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Hey, explorers, it's Tara. We are so glad that you press play today. Throughout this month, Karen and I have been exploring what it means to reconnect with joy. Last week, we were talking about following the breadcrumbs of joy. This week, we're talking about what happens when we follow those breadcrumbs far enough that they become expression. Karen when we were children, creativity is natural. We sing without worrying about whether we're doing it right. We dance before we know the steps we draw. And we don't call ourselves artists.
[00:01:28] Speaker C: We play in the sandbox. We play in the sandbox of imagination all the time.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Many of us stopped creating not because we ran out of creativity, our creativity is this limited resource, but because we have convinced ourselves that creativity is a thing that belongs to someone else. And I feel like when we do that, we lose a very big component of what it means to have joy and aliveness. So today's conversation is going to be an invitation for us to reconsider that idea.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: Yeah, because creative expression is really something that we all have access to and that we all can utilize to make this human experience so much more expansive and warm and joyful and wonderful. And so many people censor themselves or silence themselves or just say, well, I'm not an artist. No, you are the artist of your own life. And in fact, if you are not creating it, then somebody is or something is or some shit. So, yeah, we got to get in there. We're welcoming Veronique here today with us. I am so excited for you all, explorers, to meet this amazing creator, fascinating, loving human being to get to know some of her work and some of her soul. And it's so important to remember all of us, not just those of us who call ourselves artists, just all of us have innate creative potential waiting to come out in some way.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: Yes, we are joined by the wonderful, illustrious Veronique Macrae, founder of stage and spirit. So tell our explorers a little bit about yourself.
[00:03:14] Speaker D: Taking in the intro, I think.
[00:03:16] Speaker C: No worries, no worries.
[00:03:18] Speaker D: A little bit about myself is embracing and embodying that creativity and really embracing that. You came to this earth to be an artist and to create and to invite others to create. Arts always existed. I remember being younger, ended up in music in high school, had a schedule conflict, ended up in theater, never left first. Didn't even know what it was. And then I was like, why am I in this class? I'm supposed to be in music. Ended up in theater. And I think it excavated or unearthed the real version of me, and I've been unearthing it ever since. And I still am always unearthing new versions through that creativity. So right now, the iteration of that is stage and spirit, inviting others to creativity, joy, the transformative power of the arts and also using it in a form of healing arts, of reconnecting with self, inviting community to heal and to connect with one another is where the track currently is with arts. But there's been so many iterations. And I find joy when I don't box myself into that and allow whatever is trying to emerge or pop up out of the ground as a seed in that season. So in this season, it's stage and spirit.
[00:04:27] Speaker C: I love that because it is, you know, creativity. And just the whole journey, human journey, is expansive. It's one of growth, right? And if we limit or censor, like, what, wanting to come through us out into the world, then we really do everyone a disservice. So I love that you're like, in this season.
You know, it's a perfect metaphor for all of us, for all of life and how things shift and change, and there's wonder at every turn.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: So I'm curious, ladies, when you hear adults say, like, I am not creative, like, why do you think that is? Like, where and when did creativity become this thing that we outsource? Like, not something that we did ourselves, but something that we admired in other people.
[00:05:14] Speaker D: I think some of that comes with the transition of childhood to adulthood. I think subconsciously, society has been programmed to say, you're growing up or do these adult things, or you have responsibilities or other narratives that I know I and other artists have heard. You need a real job. You need something with substance. You need something concrete. And so I believe slowly, the naturalness of being a creator and an artist is tucked away and put inside of a little box. Sometimes a lot of people get a lot of locks put on that box because it's like, no, I can't let that emerge. Or, no, that's childlike. Not understanding that it is that childlike innocence and creativity and freedom that you really need throughout your life. And so that's why I believe you hear more stuff like getting back to your inner child or healing your inner child, or doing those things because your spirit came here knowing some of the things it wanted to do already. And a lot of those things had the freedom to emerge in childhood. And I think just societal pressures or trying to fit into molds that say, this is what adults do, or this is what you do, or trying to measure yourself to someone else. And like, no, you are an artist. Whether you do it for yourself, whether you share with other people, whether you do it one day a week, whether you do it 24, seven. Like, we are all artists. We all came here with the gift and ability to create.
And I also don't think art should be limited to certain definitions. So I feel like people are boxed in by definitions and constructs that others impose on them.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: And.
[00:06:50] Speaker D: And it's not necessarily that others are being malicious, but that was imposed upon them as well. So it comes to a point where, how do you break that chain of saying, Even if you were saying this to me in love or concern, no, I'm good. I'm gonna bust that lock off and bust out of this box and just be.
Because we're honestly all artists, we came here innately with those gifts put in us. And I think that is part of the discovery of taking those chains off, of not having to be one thing, of not having to be categorized. I think that is what hinders a lot of people from being an artist.
[00:07:27] Speaker C: Right? I mean, artistry can come in the form of there could be someone who's really good at high level strategy and planning, and that is creative. That's part of the way they express their creativity. And something you said touch something in my soul.
When we start to box it up, we are doing such a disservice to our really, our wholeness, the fullness of who we are, because it's an important aspect of who we are. And if we think that's only saved for a certain percentage of the population, then one will never be whole. Because until we embrace that as part of our wholeness, and until we welcome back the creativity of that child, whether it's the inner child or the physical child that you remember from 3, 4, 5 years old, whatever is. Until we welcome that back and wholeheartedly hug that child and say, let's go. What do you want to do? How do you want to play? How do you want to express? How do you want to show up? We will always feel Less than whole, less than full. We will always feel at a deficit.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: I feel like too as adults on that same vein of limiting what art is. We feel like we need talent or some training or a reason to be creative.
But in childhood we are creating without permission. I made mud pies. I'm of that generation where I was going outside in the back and I was making mud pies. And our imaginations were insane because you couldn't tell us these mud pies wasn't top tier. Ruth's Chris. This is what we're eating in the backyard at our grandparents houses. Yeah. The boxes of creativity. I'm like, both of you know my husband and something that he says, I used to draw or I used to do this. That limited definition of creativity. But y' all know he a coder and the things that he translates in from Click Clack's words to actually something on the screen, I'm like, I have to go remind him. Oh yeah, you are creative. Coding is creative. Coming from this raw concept or someone sends you this thing and out comes this website or out comes this app or out comes this product. That is creativity.
[00:09:30] Speaker C: 100%.
Yes. There's so many forms of creativity. Right?
[00:09:35] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: I'll probably link to one of our previous episodes, Karen and you and I, because we've talked about it before. Like, creativity doesn't just look like this one thing. It doesn't just look like this painting. Because if it did, that'd be boring.
[00:09:46] Speaker C: That'd be so boring.
[00:09:48] Speaker D: I think what you're saying is another reason people think that the term creativity or artistry has to be locked into one thing. And it was funny because it reminded me of a chapter I wrote in my first book. Like, because as I was writing it was reminding me like, you're an artist. I'm like, my sister's work, she does crazy things with numbers and finite. I'm like, that's artistry. That mathematician is artistry. You know, your husband coding, that's artistry. Landscaping is artistry. As well as visual art or theater or movement and somatic movement in the body is artistry. I think it's also a lot of things just sound like limiting beliefs and limiting definitions. And so as we start to take the limits off and people realize, oh, I can be that. Because there's also a freedom when you say you're an artist. And sometimes people are afraid of that freedom because they don't know what that freedom looks like or where it could possibly take them. But it would take them on a beautiful journey. And it reminds me of what you said about breadcrumbs. Like, if they started just picking up the little breadcrumbs of that, how much more open and how much more whole they would be. If you just allow yourself and put no expectation on it. Pick up the pencil or whatever medium it is, and with the drawing and art, again, just do it with no expectation, no type of limit on yourself. No saying, oh, it has to look like this. Just being in the moment of creation.
[00:11:10] Speaker C: Yeah. Just giving yourself the opportunity to connect with yourself on that level. And you just never know. Right.
Boy, those limits, limited beliefs.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a whole spin off episode right there.
[00:11:24] Speaker C: Come on. They will come on in.
They will steal that joy, you know,
[00:11:29] Speaker B: like, that's the thing. I was on a call with my coach and we were talking. The past year I've been working on visibility, and she was pushing me, encouraging me to move to this next step. And I was like, if I want to do that. And she was like, why? And I was like, because of the people. And she's like, what people? So then we do this. Drill down, drill down. And I realized the people was really just a specific person.
And I was like, oh, I know cognitively, I don't care what the people think or this person thinks. And I was like, I just got to get back to creating the things because. Because I know that this is what I was supposed to do. This is what I was put here for. This is how my creativity manifests itself and shows up in this physical world. And I can't be ashamed or apologetic about that. Like, it is what it is. I don't make the assignments.
[00:12:16] Speaker C: You're right. You're just following order, so to speak. Right? Like, just like, yeah, this is who I am, so I must express who I am. And you just can't give a fox about what anyone else thinks about it. That's none of your business, frankly.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: So I guess when you are connecting with clients or other people in various creative spaces, what do you see? For someone who starts at saying, like, I'm not creative, to. Then they're creating the. Whatever it is, the output. What do you see that surprises people most when they reconnect with their creativity, when they follow those breadcrumbs.
[00:12:53] Speaker C: Great question, Tara.
[00:12:55] Speaker D: For me, I can probably use the most recent example where I was working with upper school or high school students directing a production of Hadestown and what I discover most. And I'm glad that they have that discovery at that age. Like, we want you to have it at any Age. But I'm like, the younger you can get it, the less BS you have to deal with removing of layers later on.
It does something in the self esteem and the confidence because they discover, oh, I can do that, or that's a gift. It's like watching someone kind of excavate a little treasure. I remember when I was younger, there were only boys in the neighborhood and we would go around neighborhood and climb trees and dig. Like we're looking for those stones, we're looking for skulls, we're looking for things and the satisfaction. Like after you're digging, you're digging, you're digging and you discover something. And for me it looks like that because it takes work for them and sometimes there is hesitancy, there is self doubt. And for me it's like creating a safe environment where they feel safe, safe enough to explore and an environment where they feel bold enough to try.
[00:13:54] Speaker C: Oh.
[00:13:55] Speaker D: And so in putting those two things together, when observing kind of that discovery that they have, it's really like almost feels falling off of their eyes in a sense of like, this is a gift I didn't even know I had. This is something that I can do, but also something that brings me joy.
[00:14:13] Speaker C: Joy is the breadcrumbs. What do I love to do? What makes me so happy? And then start there and just start looking there. I have to repeat and just really like bold and italicize what you said. Safe enough to explore, bold enough to try.
People need to feel safe, right? And we create that inner safety for ourselves. But not if you don't know how to do that or if you haven't ever done that. We need models, we need examples. We need people like you who are allowing this creative, safe space for people to come into, to notice what they notice, find what they find, and then move with it. That's good. Oh, I love it.
[00:14:53] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, gosh, yeah. That's so good. Veronique, you touched on something. And I know for all three of us that emotional, well being, emotional health is something that is really important to us also. V where you were talking, I was reminded I'm going to church right quick, y' all and Karen appreciated Vy. I know you appreciate it.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:15:12] Speaker B: One of the things that changed my perspective about what activity was was reading in the book of Exodus about the first person with the spirit, which was Bezalel, which was not an artist by definition, but an artisan. So you don't need status, you don't need stature, you don't need any of those things to Be creative, period.
[00:15:35] Speaker C: All you need to do is reconnect with yourself, with your truth. Allow yourself to do that little exploration, right? That's all you need.
And permission granted. Permission granted. Try.
[00:15:48] Speaker B: Look, do we look forward to everything that you have coming up and working with you in the future? Thank you so much for joining us.
[00:15:57] Speaker C: Yeah, Veronique, I'm so glad you joined us. Thank you so much.
We come into this world fully enough, fully worthy, right? And I hear so many people, so many adults, people my age still walk around going, I don't know what my purpose is. Your purpose is to be all of you. And that means all of you. The icky bits and the genius creative bits, all of you. To be all of you. And then to bring that out into the world in your own unique, special way. So purpose is being authentic. Purpose is being all of you. Being you and adding that value to the world in whatever way is you. We just need to find one other person.
Put your radar out. Find one other person that is either already creating or feels like a safe person for you to be all of yourself with and start there and just support each other in that. And then it'll sort of naturally grow. It's like anything energetic. If you find that and you feed it, then it will naturally grow and then it'll attract more. And I think that anyone can do that, right? Anyone can find that one person. All you need is one person.
If we can't find the safety within ourselves, find one person outside of yourself that feels like that and start there and then build something together. They find someone like you who's got this whole environment, this whole community, and then it grows even more.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: Oh, I love that. Like, the community and the people around you make the whole process, the whole way of doing life, like, less intimidating, which invites and makes creativity more accessible because we're not limiting it to just ourselves. We are finding those people that can support us in our creative efforts and endeavors. It's been amazing.
[00:17:44] Speaker C: As V was saying, art imitating life. Life imitating art. Art is expressing our humanity and our humanity. Pieces of that are art. Right? A very yin yang, cohesive thing.
So the more that we are allowing ourselves to get back to who we really are, to our wholeness, embracing all of the parts, the more we're going to be able to do that for ourselves and in community. And to me, that's the highest form of love. Right? Just being all of who you are and modeling for someone else.
That permission and that ability.
[00:18:24] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:18:24] Speaker B: So explore whatever creativity looks like for you. Go out, take the class, sing the song, write the words in your journal, cook the meal, get into movement or theater or whatever it is. Don't limit your creativity. And don't let anyone else limit your creativity either.
This week's song is a reminder that some of the most meaningful paths begin when we're willing to do things differently from what we've been told, taught, or the expectations that have been imposed upon us. So it encourages us to take those creative risks and express who we really are. The song is Renegades by Ex Ambassadors.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: Check out this week's song on the YO Podcast playlist on Sports Spotify.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Oh, my goodness.
That was fun.
[00:19:24] Speaker C: That was fun.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: I love that song so much. In the beginning, living, running wild and running free like, if that's not creativity, like, sign me up to be a renegade. Thank you so much. X Ambassadors was so good.
It was really good. Well, we have talked about creativity and the joy in creative expression. We danced it out. It is time for our question of the day.
And so when I did this, there were two question options. So now I'm trying to figure out which one is. I got it. All right.
[00:19:57] Speaker C: I was like, you're going to feel it next. Three seconds. Okay.
[00:20:00] Speaker B: Yes. Today's question is, where in your life are you being invited to create rather than consume?
[00:20:10] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:20:10] Speaker B: It's like, wait, what? For me, how it's shown up lately in my life is getting back in the kitchen and cooking. So when our youngest went off to college, y', all, me and my husband, they need to eat. There's no groceries in the house. There is. We're like, I think we were living on thoughts and prayers for the first half. The first semester. I'm like, I don't. There's no food. I don't know how to cook for just two people. I don't know what to do with this.
But over time, I got tired of consuming food that was not my food. It got tired and old and stale. And, like, even this week, I made meatloaf, mashed potatoes, and peas last night. And I grew up. I'm like, I'm a Southern girl, so.
[00:20:52] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: Like, there are not just, like, Sunday, I have Sunday dinner on a Monday night. I don't care. But just getting back in the kitchen and creating food for people to enjoy, people I love especially to enjoy, like, that's the call for me right now.
[00:21:09] Speaker C: Oh, I love that you've returned to that. It's funny, there's been months where I've been sort of kind of like, waffling in and out. But this past week I've just made some meals and, like, both my kids were around and I was just like, oh, this is great.
Like, when you only have one other person or if sometimes if you're just by yourself.
[00:21:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:28] Speaker C: You're like, I don't know, I can eat anything. I could eat an apple and I'd be fine. You know, I love that because I know for me, you are the picture of, like, just with love cooking in, you know, and just like, gathering people.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: Like, that feels the kitchen is definitely the heart of my home.
[00:21:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
I think for me, lately it's been being called to collaborate, to do this volunteering that I've been doing on the paper hand puppet project and to be creating on my own and then also to be creating in concert with others towards a big picture thing. And it feels really nice. Balance.
[00:22:08] Speaker E: Yeah.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: All right, so just like the two questions, I had two quotes for this episode. One was from one of our quotable people. I'm like, we can't keep. I mean, we can and we can. Quoting, right? I found this quote from someone. I didn't even look up how to say this man name. So I apologize in advance, theater, if I totally butcher the rest of your name. But it's Dieter Frederick Uchtdorf, who is a German American religious leader and former airline executive. Dieter said the desire to create is one of the deepest yearnings of the human soul. No matter our talents, education, backgrounds, or abilities, we each have an inherent wish to create something that did not exist before.
[00:22:55] Speaker C: That's right, Dieter.
It's just in our blueprint, it's in our DNA. We want to create. We want to bring something to life. We want to expand. We want to improve or expand on something. Create something that wasn't here before.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Oh, I love that.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: So lovely.
Thank you so much for joining us for this episode. Until next time, explorers, I pray you make room for curiosity, wonder, and play. And may you remember that creativity isn't reserved for a gifted few. It's one of the ways that we remember who we are.
[00:23:32] Speaker D: Yeah.
[00:23:33] Speaker C: Amen to that. Explorers, you are magnificent works of art, yourselves, individually and collectively. And may you give yourself time to explore and get to know your creative aspects and then share it with the world. We love you so much. Thanks for joining us. Take good care.
[00:23:54] Speaker E: Thank you to Queenies in downtown Durham for the use of their community podcast studio and for welcoming us so warmly. Each week, we'd like to give a shout out to Coco Cinnamon, the birthplace of 1023 Media and the yo podcast. Please support your local women owned minority owned coffee shop in downtown Durham.
Brought to you by Durham based 1023 Media, a heart centered woman owned multimedia company.
