Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to youo Odyssey Podcast, where your guides, Tara and Karen invite you on a transformative journey toward wholeness and personal growth.
Each week, we'll discuss topics related to the human experience and offer insights to help you along the way.
Please note, this podcast should not replace medical care or advice.
We are not licensed healthcare professionals or mental health therapists.
If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe so you don't miss out on our future discussions.
So, explorers, let's dive into today's episode.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Hey, explorers, it's Tara. In the last episode, Karen and I talked about what it looks like to say it anyway, even when your voice is shaky, even when you're unsure. And today I want to sit with the other side of that. Like, what happens when we don't say it anyway?
We talked about it a little bit in the last episode, like, what that means in your body. But there's even more. There's an even bigger cost, because silence is not neutral.
And as Audrey, I was like, and as Audrey so beautifully reminded us, nor does it protect us like this. Silence shapes you.
It isn't harmless, isn't something that just passes. It actually leaves a mark.
[00:01:41] Speaker C: It sits in you.
It sits in you and it stays.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Get that part. So today we're in the aftermath, in the accumulation, the quiet consequences of the things we don't say.
So, Karen, when you hear the cost of staying quiet, what comes up for you first?
[00:02:05] Speaker C: First. Okay, first out of the 900 things. Yeah, I mean, I've said it before. So the first thing that comes up for me is feeling like I did not ever speak my truth.
And to an extent, I feel like I didn't actually really know my truth through a lot of years to even be able to speak it. But once I started uncovering it and I was still sort of tentative and holding it in, for me, you know, that many decades of holding it in led to breast cancer. Like, I am certain. It's like, cause, effect. And there's studies to show that, you know, women who do not express themselves, there's something about suppressing, you know, what you want to say, your feelings, your emotions, and it gets stuck in your body, and it most often shows up as breast cancer.
So I was among the numbers. You know, I was like, okay, that's my cue. The other thing that comes up is a moment as a child that I remember wanting to speak up on behalf of my brother who was getting punished for something, and I did not.
That has sat with me for a long time.
Like I said, it'll sit with you,
[00:03:14] Speaker B: it'll sit in you that both things that you just said reminded me. Like, what first came up for me is like, the cost is too high. Like it's too costly.
[00:03:26] Speaker C: It's so high.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: The cost is too high. And it's one. Like I am intentionally and actively no longer willing to pay.
I don't want to pay it anymore. Like, I don't want that to be the charge that I get. Like, it is, the cost is way too high. Like you said, it shows up in your body. I know we've talked before about, especially given where your tumors are located, like close to your heart, like what that means. But at the end of the day, what I do know is that the cost is too high. Be it in your body.
[00:03:58] Speaker C: The cost was high for me, whether it was going to change anything or not.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: Exactly real high for me. And the cost is just too, too high. And then it's like in those moments that you don't speak like yours remembering that, it's like it always starts with that moment. Like a conversation you avoided, a thing you didn't say out loud, something, you swallowed something. And that moment, it absolutely had a reason. Like, now's not the right time. This is what you told yourself. It's not that big a deal. Or maybe I'll say it later. But I will say in navigating the complexities of, like, recent grief, later is not always guaranteed.
[00:04:39] Speaker C: Exactly. Right.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: The right time is when you say it. Like, yeah. And the right time you feel it. Say yeah, when you feel it and say it. And like something in you in those moments, like new. But it's not that you didn't say. The thing is that something. Something inside of you recognized that it was the time to say it. It was the truth to say. And you didn't give it a voice. And that also is the cost. It's like, no, I don't want to self silence myself in that way. I don't want to be a woman who doesn't say what she's thinking.
As an adult, I've not quite been the person that I wonder if Tara likes such and such. Like you would know because my face would tell before. Like, the words will even come out of my mouth, like, what's really going on? So it's like I want these things to match. Like, I want a little bit more poker face. And I also want to know how to say and deliver the things with love, compassion and grace without deluding it. Like, I don't want to wait for the perfect moment to Say the thing. And I don't want to avoid conversations just because they're hard.
Now I will take the time to think through the things and be like, you know what? There's this thing I need to say, but I need to figure out how to approach it with compassion and grace and kindness and not just be like,
[00:05:58] Speaker C: especially if it's a bigger deal, something that's been ongoing in a relationship or whatever. Take a minute.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: Yes, you take a minute.
[00:06:05] Speaker C: You can take a minute or five or a day or whatever, but just like, you know, make sure that you come back to it and express it. Right. Because that is a high price to pay. And it's so funny, when you asked me the question, I immediately thought you were talking about, like examples, like, what are the examples? Whereas your answer was, was pretty different. It was more about what does that mean to you?
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah, isn't that funny?
[00:06:27] Speaker C: That same question elicited two very different responses from two very different thinkers.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Because like, the things that we don't say don't just disappear. Like, they don't just evaporate, like they get stored in your body. I want to dive into like, what that looks like in terms of cost, like internally, relationally, spiritual and emotionally.
So in those moments where I have not said the things, like I start to second guess myself in other areas, like things that were super duper clear, like, then they start to feel uncertain. It's like, well, if I didn't say this, and it's not because like anything foundationally has changed about the situation or about me, but because I didn't give that thing somewhere to live. Like, it's like insidious, like it's like this creeping vine where like it starts to like this self trust erosion and like the disconnect between what I know and, and how I live or what I know and what I say.
[00:07:25] Speaker C: And it's like, yeah, it starts to become a little distorted, a little detached. It's like, wait a minute, that's not how I usually do this.
[00:07:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Or like even still, like, even in those moments when I don't say what I know I need to say, not something bad happens, but like you're like, oh, well, I could have said blah, blah, blah. Or is someone like a warning system maybe, is what it is. It's like, oh, well, you know, you could have said the thing and we could have avoided a lot of back and forth if you would have just said the thing. A lot of heartache either for you or the other person involved in the conversation, relationship or Whatever. But first and foremost, I see this goes back to the cost. I see the cost to myself internally, that second guessing and the erosion of self where I start to disappear on myself, that I'm just like, yeah, no, no, that. That's not for me. I don't want to do that. I don't want to pay that. I don't want to live in the in between where I don't trust what I know.
[00:08:23] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's so, as you're saying that I'm feeling it so viscerally in my body.
Like that exact moment, that exact moment when you feel something and you have something to say and you don't say.
Feels like a complete, like, disrespect or like a. A mistrust or. It's. It's like a breach of something, right? It's a. It's a breach of confidence. It's a. Like a breach of faith between you, yourself or you and your voice.
And you can feel it in your body.
[00:08:55] Speaker B: If you.
[00:08:56] Speaker C: If you start to know, like, you could start to think about it, Notice, like, oh, yeah, in that meeting I remember. And you. It's almost like you sort of disassociate, like, from your body. You're like. Things start to disseparate. You know what I mean? You don't feel cohesive, you don't feel aligned. Because it was like a little glitch, right? It was like a little notch in the wood and like, something didn't quite sit right.
[00:09:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:21] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Ooh. And then there's this relational cost.
Can I let y' all in on a little secret?
[00:09:30] Speaker C: Please do, Ms. Terry. Full.
[00:09:33] Speaker B: People meet the version of you that you present.
[00:09:38] Speaker C: Hmm.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Not the truth that you don't share. Like, so to be fully present, to be fully seen, to be fully committed in relationships, like, if you are not, if there's that wall, if there is that disconnect, like, you still feel unseen. We've talked about it before, about being in community and, like, how loneliness works. And it's not because the people around you don't care, but there is that disconnect because they never got access to what was real for you. They never got access to the beauty of your soul and your thoughts. And Karen is like, yes, that.
[00:10:13] Speaker C: So often. So many times. So many times. I'm like, why doesn't anybody understand? Did you share?
[00:10:19] Speaker B: Did you exactly say.
[00:10:21] Speaker C: Did you tell. Did you open?
[00:10:24] Speaker B: That's why people meet the version of you that you present, which is why it's. So as someone who you know is a certified scuba instructor, a scuba diver. Like, baby, we're gonna put the full suit on, and you're, like, not gonna know mask wear. We're gonna be, you know, smiles and frowns, like, fully masked up.
And you're not gonna know then, like, wondering, like, why do I feel so far away from people, even though there are all these amazing people around me? Is because, girl, you just this. They close to that version of you.
[00:10:56] Speaker C: They think you're over there and you not. They don't.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: You're projecting. Like, you did some weird ass, like,
[00:11:01] Speaker C: a holograph on the wall. You're like. And you're like, why are they talking to that person? Like, why are they talking to that?
[00:11:06] Speaker B: I'm right here. Like, why would they think that I want to do that? Oh, because that is the one. And it's really, like, one is protection. Like, I get that.
[00:11:16] Speaker C: It is protection. We're not making light of that.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: I mean, I'm making out of myself now because I'd just be, like, so confused. Like, why. Why are we. Why are we in the community like this? It's really tricky because, like, then this, like, resentment can build up. It's like, oh, well, you didn't know me, ma'. Am.
You didn't introduce yourself.
[00:11:32] Speaker C: You did not introduce the real you. You didn't share yourself.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: That was on you.
Don't be mad that they don't know you and you didn't even.
[00:11:41] Speaker C: That's on you.
Oh, wow.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah.
[00:11:47] Speaker C: It's like that expression, not choosing is still making a choice. Right? So, like, not sharing your truth is still. You're still sharing something, but it's not your truth.
You're still sharing something, but it's not real. It's like the hologram.
[00:12:02] Speaker B: I love that. The hologram.
[00:12:03] Speaker C: Yeah. I just keep picturing Princess Leia, like, in this way.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Hologram. That's exactly what it is.
And then there's this emotional and spiritual quas cost. Like, that.
It's kind of like the under layer. Like, it's quieter, but it's heavier. Like, what is like, heavy water? Like, it looks like it's not too much, but it's solid. Like, there is this tension that lives in your body and everything that you can't quite put your finger on it. You can't name it, but you know that something is off. Like, oh, the heaviness, emotion. Like, it is profound.
[00:12:39] Speaker C: It is that disconnect, that effect that it has on your emotional body, like, energetically speaking, and. And your heart. Right. Like, it has a profound Effect in every aspect of your being.
If you don't just speak your truth, share your truth, be who you are. Right. Then it's like you're giving yourself messages of like, I don't know who I am. And sometimes we don't know who we. Right. Like I.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Which is a very long time, to be fair. Yeah.
[00:13:07] Speaker C: It's part of the journey is getting to know yourself and really coming home to yourself and feel like, oh, okay, yeah, I am this. I have these skills. I love this about me. And being loving and kind towards yourself helps you get to know yourself deeply so then you can share with others. Right. It's really important to get to know yourself.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: Get to know yourself. I don't want to gloss over the fact that, you know, the safety in being quiet. Like, some of us have stayed quiet because at some point that was like the safest thing to do. Said in the situation earlier, it's safer to keep the peace. It's safer not to rock the relationship or rock the boat. Is safer not to risk being rejected or seen differently. And that's not random. Like, that's how we were conditioned. That's what we learned. So we're not judging.
[00:13:59] Speaker C: Yeah, that's our nervous system's job, literally, is to keep us, like to let us know. Fight. Flight. Flight, flight. And like, then the brain's like, okay, and now we're gonna.
So. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's very real. It's chemical and it's neural. It's all the things. Yeah, we're not dismissing that.
[00:14:17] Speaker B: No, we're not dismissing it. Like you said, we're not making light of it. The idea of like, naming this without judgment changes how we relate to our silence, like, being that awareness. And then like, huh, let me dive in a little bit as to why, like, where did this come from? Where did this start? And how can you make different choices moving forward?
[00:14:38] Speaker C: It all comes down to that awareness.
Being in touch with how something feels in your body, being in touch with how it affects you emotionally, spiritually, physically.
And diving into. Why is that my go to response? Why do I swallow that? You know, and then just kind of, you know, playing a little bit of detective, just trying to figure it out and giving yourself a lot of love and compassion in the meanwhile.
[00:15:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it's like the question isn't like, why didn't I say that? It's like, what do I want to say? Or what do I want to do with this bit of awareness that I have about myself now? And it's not saying like, now that we've asked this question, like, what do I want to do moving forward, that we just go out and just say everything all the time?
[00:15:23] Speaker C: It's not just one time. You know, it's not just one awareness. I mean, maybe it could be, but
[00:15:28] Speaker B: if it is, like, what handbook did y' all work from? Because I would like to shortcut what cheat code that was. And it might just look like, you know, telling the truth in one space, in one area, in one instance, or setting one boundary and keeping it.
And keeping it.
[00:15:46] Speaker C: Yeah, right.
[00:15:46] Speaker B: Or just saying that one honest thing instead of, like, softening it. Like, the goal is not to say everything. Y' all really don't.
[00:15:54] Speaker C: Yeah, don't. No, don't do that.
[00:15:56] Speaker B: The goal is to stop abandoning.
Abandoning what you know to be true. Like.
[00:16:02] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:16:02] Speaker B: You don't have to say everything. Nobody needs every thought that pops into your head.
[00:16:07] Speaker C: Right? Stop.
[00:16:08] Speaker B: I don't even need all the thoughts that pop into my head.
[00:16:11] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Stop. Abandoning yourself is such a great way to say it. Like, you know, feel into your self worth. Like, feel into, you know, the fact that you're even here on this Earth at this moment in time. Right. Was sort of a pretty miraculous thing. So embody that. Feel your self worth, love yourself, connect with yourself. Stay connected with yourself and do what you can little by little to express yourself.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Do what you can little by little. When you're saying, like, you're here on this Earth, of course, like, one of my favorite Bible stories is like, Queen Esther, it's the. For such a time as this, it's like, for. You are here for a reason, for this time. So, like, if you don't say it, who will?
If you don't speak your truth, if you don't stand up for yourself, if you don't stop believing yourself behind, then who is going to do that for you?
[00:17:04] Speaker C: You are literally the only one. You are the captain and the rudder on your ship. You are all the parts.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Yeah. So voice and expression is something, Karen, you and I, especially, as we talk about, like, coaching work that's been really big for us. So I'm curious if you could share with explorers, like, what that has looked like for you to, like, rebuild that trust with your own voice.
[00:17:30] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, really, for me, it took a lot of time. Patience, consistency, regulating my nervous system first and foremost.
[00:17:41] Speaker B: So that's where it started.
[00:17:42] Speaker C: That's where it started. Absolutely. Regulating the nervous system, being like, wow, I feel really unsteady in this. And I just, like, then, okay, so what do you need.
All right, we need to go into the squat, get on the floor, take some deep breaths. What do you need? You know, and then just like, just work with my nervous system. Be like, you're safe. Like I talk to myself out loud or internally, you're safe. It's okay. You can say what's on your mind, you can say what's on your heart.
This will not kill you.
It only feels that way because you haven't done it enough. You haven't done it a lot. Let's just say, you know, the fear will not kill us.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I have.
Like, this feels playful, but it's like a practice, which is how we learn plays, how we learn, you know, practicing things like that. Like, I've done it. I started it in like low risk situations where we're watching a show and characters are interacting. And I was like, I don't like that. I don't like how he said that. Like, I don't like that. So in the real world, when it turns like, I'm used to saying those words. So it's like I'm doing pretend like I'm reacting to this thing that I'm saying. I don't like that.
[00:18:48] Speaker C: Right. Because it's low.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: Right?
Like, this doesn't have anything to do with me. We could actually cut this off if I don't like it. Like, I don't have to be. But the idea, the habit of building and practicing saying the word I don't like that or that's not for me, building that muscle and saying it out loud.
Me and my husband were watching something the other day and I still do it now. I was like, I don't like that.
[00:19:10] Speaker C: I don't like that.
[00:19:11] Speaker B: I don't like that.
[00:19:12] Speaker C: Right. Because discernment is a big part of it, isn't it?
[00:19:14] Speaker B: No. Extra like, they like. Yeah, I don't like that.
[00:19:17] Speaker C: Discernment and being able to say that sentence like we say no is a full sentence, right?
[00:19:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:22] Speaker C: To be able to say the thing and just like standing behind it be like, I don't like that.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: I don't like that.
[00:19:28] Speaker C: No explanation necessary. I don't like that. That right now does not feel good in this body.
Don't like it.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: May that like, maybe it was like building on some, like, old, like old wound. I was like, I don't like that. I don't like idea of play and habit building in the way of responding to something like got me really comfortable and familiar with saying those words in real life, everyday situations.
[00:19:52] Speaker C: I love that. I think it's brilliant.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Yeah, Play. Pretend. Let's pretend.
[00:19:57] Speaker C: Let's pretend, right? That's what we all did for, like, two when we were two and three.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Like, just pretend.
[00:20:02] Speaker C: Like, play is the way we learn from the get go.
[00:20:05] Speaker B: Like, I pretended to know my bestie was talking about the other day when she was just saying I'm like, that's not English. But she. She know.
[00:20:11] Speaker C: But she was communicating.
[00:20:13] Speaker B: She was. And we were having a blast. All right, I. Wow.
I know that, like, sometimes before anything changes on the outside, similar to what you were just saying, Karen, about, like, how it started with regulating your nervous system, asking for what you need. Like, we can sometimes feel the weight of, like, what's been sitting there, the pull of it, the way it just keeps circling back and it keeps showing up and keeps pulling at us quietly to remind us that there is a very real cost to not saying the thing.
[00:20:45] Speaker C: And.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: And I found a song that talks about the cost.
[00:20:48] Speaker C: It's exhausting to not say the thing.
[00:20:50] Speaker B: Do you know what I mean?
[00:20:51] Speaker C: Like, we might not realize in the moment, but you start carrying that and carrying more phrases. It is exhausting.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: It's heavy.
[00:20:59] Speaker C: You are so much better off saying the thing.
Sorry. Yeah. You got a cute little song.
[00:21:04] Speaker B: What is it? I got a cute little song by one of our favorite singer songwriters. This song is Gravity from Sarah Bareilles.
[00:21:13] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. That's a great song.
All right, let's move.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Check out this week's song on the YO Podcast playlist on Spotify.
[00:21:31] Speaker C: Yeah, man. You can sing that to the words unspoken, right?
Sing that to the words unspoken.
[00:21:37] Speaker B: You. Like, when I first heard that song, like, you think about it in terms of, like, a relationship with someone else, but listening at it from this angle, from this perspective, y', all, it's like
[00:21:50] Speaker C: you and then the other version you're talking to.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: You're talking to those words me freely. Like, you're. Like, you're neither friend or foe, but, like, it's me. Like, you're keeping me down. You like the.
The. The.
Is it the Kermit frog? Like me and then, like, shadow me? Like, the Face off version of, like, talking to myself. Like, no, you were actually the one doing this to you, right?
[00:22:16] Speaker C: Set yourself free.
[00:22:18] Speaker B: Another moment in your gravity. Like, let. Let me go. Don't. Don't do this.
[00:22:22] Speaker C: Just bringing me down, like, back down.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: And then when she go up, and then we, like.
[00:22:29] Speaker C: Sarah was like, Sarah, please.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Sarah. Sarah. I love you, Sarah. Thank you. That was.
[00:22:34] Speaker C: That was amazing. God.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: All right.
[00:22:37] Speaker C: That was one of my favorite songs.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: I. That whole, like you said, that album.
[00:22:40] Speaker C: Like, the album. Unbelievable.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: Might listen to that a little bit later depending on what else I got going on today. All right.
[00:22:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: Sarah has awakened us to our gravity. The gravity of the things that we don't say, that we don't say.
[00:22:57] Speaker C: Keep inside. The things we hold inside.
[00:23:01] Speaker B: Question of the day. We probably touched on it a little bit in this episode, but the question is, what has your silence cost you? Not hypothetically, not someday, but already. Like, what has it cost you? We've already said that. The cost is too high.
[00:23:18] Speaker C: You wanna go first?
[00:23:19] Speaker B: I do wanna go first.
[00:23:20] Speaker C: I have a feeling I might.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: I do wanna go first. Silence has cost me three things that make it too costly for me. One is peace.
Two is clarity.
And three is time that I can't get back.
[00:23:38] Speaker C: Mm.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: Peace, clarity and time. Like, those things are the things that make it extremely costly. Like the peace of presence, clarity and time. I don't want to pay in any of those currencies, and I don't think, you know, like, this is very expensive, and I do not want, like, no, thank you. Silence. No, thank you.
[00:24:03] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the. Honestly, the first one you came up with is the answer for me. It's like, it.
The things that have lived in my body, unspoken for a long time, it's like they ferment. Right. It's like they grow and ferment and cause trouble in all the arenas, you know? So I think. And it is. That's too high of a cost.
[00:24:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Just realize what it is like on the other side of it, once you're like, oh, no, like, the peace.
[00:24:38] Speaker C: Yeah. I will keep my peace at all costs. If that means interrupting the piece, if you know what I mean.
[00:24:45] Speaker B: Sometimes it does mean that. And sometimes the situation requires. And that's okay. My peace of mind, My peace of soul. Yeah. Okay.
[00:24:55] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:24:56] Speaker B: There is a quote from Swiss psychiatrist and psychoanalyst Mr. Carl Jung.
What you resist not only persists, but will grow in size magnifies.
[00:25:13] Speaker C: Amen. Absolutely.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: Between Audrey last time and Carl this time, I just want to remind explorers, like, if something has come up or something has come to mind while you were listening to any of this. And it's like, that is something that's worth paying attention to.
Not to, like, rush you to be ready for the moment to say the thing or not say. Not to force you to do anything, but to honor what you know to be true. To honor your voice as something that helps shape your life, as something that helps you Become and be all of who you came to be for such a time as this.
That's.
[00:25:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Your voice is a tool for your own peace and well being. Your voice is a tool, you know, and it's an important tool that we must learn how to use as part of our toolkit. And if we're not using it, then we're really missing out on an amazing built in tool that we have that we carry everywhere with us that we can use at any time. If we give ourselves permission and not using our voice and tamping down and suppressing, it's gonna come back to bite you. As Carl Jung said, it will magnify.
I'm living proof of it. And I just want better for you explorers.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So until next time, explorer. May you listen closely to what's been sitting beneath the surface and find the courage in your own time to bring it to the light.
[00:26:51] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's funny, that thing you said about just like simply noticing like if anything in this episode just sparked a little like, huh, like maybe go journal about that, maybe write that thing down. Maybe be like, okay, when I feel safe and ready, I'll look at this and I'll see, I'll dissect it a little bit. Right. It's exploratory. Curiosity is really important when you're on any stage of your journey where you're expanding and growing. So in the meantime, be compassionate, be kind, love yourselves like we love you and we'll see you next time.
Take good care.
[00:27:26] Speaker D: Thank you to Queenies in downtown Durham for the use of their community podcast studio and for welcoming us so warmly.
[00:27:32] Speaker C: Each week we'd like to give a
[00:27:36] Speaker D: shout out to Coco Cinnamon, the birthplace of 1023 Media and the yo podcast. Please support your local women owned minority owned coffee shop shop in downtown Durham.
Brought to you by Durham based 1023 Media, a heart centered woman owned multimedia company.
