What Are You Making It Mean?

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to youo Odyssey Podcast, where your guides, Tara and Karen invite you on a transformative journey toward wholeness and personal growth. Each week, we'll discuss topics related to the human experience and offer insights to help you along the way. Please note, this podcast should not replace medical care or advice. We are not licensed healthcare professionals or mental health therapists. If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe so you don't miss out on our future discussions. So, explorers, let's dive into today's episode. [00:00:53] Speaker B: Hey, explorers, it's Tara. Karen and I are so glad that you have joined us today for this episode. [00:01:01] Speaker C: We're already laughing. [00:01:02] Speaker B: It's fine. [00:01:03] Speaker C: I mean, we're still laughing. [00:01:05] Speaker B: It's fine. Yes, Penny Farthing. If you haven't, go back two episodes and you'll understand why we're still laughing. Explorer, have you ever caught yourself reacting to something and then realizing that you were reacting to what you thought it meant and not necessarily what actually happened? So let's say, for example, you send a text and then they don't respond. And somewhere between hitting send and checking your phone, your brain has already written an entire screenplay. Like, they're upset with me. I said something wrong. They're ignoring me. Meanwhile, they could just actually be at target anesthesia. [00:01:40] Speaker C: They could be literally under anesthesia. Like, it is not about you, darling. [00:01:43] Speaker B: Nothing to do with you. But our beautiful, beautiful minds are constantly interpreting what happening around us. Filling in missing information, making predictions, and trying to make meaning out of what we see. And sometimes. Sometimes we get so used to those interpretations that we forget that they are actually just interpretations. And our thoughts are. Our thought feels very real, like the screenplay that we have written and the emotion that it creates, the. That is absolutely real. But does that automatically mean that the thought is true? [00:02:25] Speaker C: Well, I can answer for me and say it does not mean that. [00:02:28] Speaker B: Right, right, right. [00:02:29] Speaker C: The thoughts are the things that precede the emotion, the feeling. But somewhere in there, you had the thought, and then the screenplay is written. Yeah, screenplay is written. You thought about what the thought means and how it makes you feel, and then just snowball, whatever you want to call it. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Indeed, a roller coaster. So today we're getting curious about that space between what happened and what we decided that it meant. Because hear me when I say this, you can absolutely have a thought without giving that thought authority. [00:03:06] Speaker C: We're just going to let that sit for a minute. [00:03:09] Speaker B: Spirit. [00:03:12] Speaker C: Without giving it authority, without giving it presence. Yeah. A thought is a thought. [00:03:19] Speaker B: The first question that came into my mind as we were talking about the power of our thoughts and emotions and meanings and interpretations was how quickly for you personally, Karen, does a thought become a fact or authority in your mind? [00:03:39] Speaker C: So I'm gonna have two answers. One is a pre and one is a now. So pre this last year, let's say a thought and a screenplay and an emotion happened pretty instantaneously, like, so dang fast. So dang fast. Like, I didn't even give it space to breathe. I didn't even have time. There's. There's just like, bloop, bloop, bloop, and dominoes fail. Yeah, yeah, yeah, now. And this is because I've been practicing this habit. I am aware. I am really pretty dang. Acutely aware of thoughts that come up. And I take a moment, and I get to decide whether I actually want to think that thought or whether I want to change the thought. I can cancel that thought and create a new thought. And then my body even feels different. So, yeah, more recently, there's much more space. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:37] Speaker C: It's not. It's not. Doesn't mean I 100% time, like, choose the different, better thought. Like, sometimes I go there, right? I woke up from a bad dream the other morning, and I was devastated. I was, like, crying. I was sobbing, and, like, I just let myself have that, right? Because there was something going on that my mind and my brain needed to work through. But when I am awake, awake, I'm aware, and I'm. I'm really kind of like a. Kind of like a. Like a crossing guard or cop. I'm just like, yes. [00:05:08] Speaker B: Like, yes, you get to go. No, you don't. You stop. [00:05:11] Speaker C: I like paying attention. Like, yeah, how about you? [00:05:16] Speaker B: What about you? You know how I love to give space between the thing and the thought? Because there is a time where I'm just going off of the screenplay. Like, not even what actually happened, but what I've made up in my mind and either withdrawing or lashing out, whatever that would look like. But as my prefrontal lobe has developed and matured and matured and lived a little bit of life and experiences, and I am much more aware of the thought that is happening and the space and giving myself the space between the thought and the reaction, which I think about it in terms of my spiritual growth and spiritual maturity. I just led a group through last year. Every thought captive, because we've talked about it before, not every thought that you have is your own. Some of them were planted by people way long ago before you probably even get here. [00:06:08] Speaker C: I'm gonna say 80% of them. I'm just gonna go out there and just throw out a percentage. [00:06:12] Speaker B: 80%. So there is. [00:06:13] Speaker C: They're not yours. Yeah. [00:06:15] Speaker B: Something about, like, even that awareness and doing all the work it is that you need to do. But even knowing from, like, a spiritual perspective, not every thought that I have is mine. So to your traffic cop analogy, like, interrogating the thought, what you doing here? Who sent you? Like, is that. No, that ain't mine. You can go back. No, you got to go. But turn around. Turn around. Return to sender. That's not mine. I don't. I'm not doing that. I just started reading the Mountain is you. So I'm reading it with my niece, and I'm just at the beginning. So, y', all, this ain't no book report or anything like that. We're doing it together, which, again, in community, that is something that is very powerful. But this is a book about transforming self sabotage into self mastery, and I'm reading it for myself and for my clients. One of the things that I'm really noticing as I am going through, like, some of the reasons that we self sabotage and set ourselves out, is just, like, not just what am I doing, but noticing in my body internally, what's happening as I'm writing the screenplay, why did I write this particular screenplay, and what am I making it mean and what is happening next? And I know, I feel, and I believe that that is part of why this conversation feels very alive to me right now, the fact that we are having it. So, yeah, not a book report. I love Brianna Weiss and the things that she challenges me to think differently about. So if you. If you have the time, if you want a book, it's definitely a book recommendation, not a book report. [00:07:41] Speaker C: I love it. I love it. There is something about when a thought leads us to a certain feeling or a certain decision, perspective, story that we've told ourselves about it. Generally, that's a really good clue. Generally, that is an invitation from your body and your soul to be like, how about we look at this and heal this now? Because so often it's a repetition of a trigger that you might not even know the origins of, but you're like, God, whenever I have this thought, I go right to, blah, blah, blah, what is that about? And can I just sort of think about it and trace it to something? And then can I just release that? Can I. Can I heal that in some way? Can I just let that connection go? Can I. Can I break that energetic connection? Or the Hawaiians, they call It. The aka can I break that energetic cord? [00:08:41] Speaker B: Yeah. What you're saying is, like, we talked of maybe two episodes ago now about the moving from the external to the internal. So I feel like we're, like, diving into that transition mission piece, that question, putting it under the microscope. And I think this is the example we used about someone canceling plans. So it's. The event is still the same. The plans are canceled, but we. If we've done some of the healing, the excavation of it, like, the event stays the same. The event hasn't changed, but our meaning attached to it has changed. So if the plans are canceled, we. The story. There are a couple of stories we could tell ourselves. It's like, they don't value me, which means I'm hurt. I feel rejected. Or you could have a story of compassion where they are busy. They've got a lot going on. Or me, my favorite default story now is thank God, because I wanted to stay home anyway. Yeah. It's the same event, but the story shifts as we become more aware of our patterns. [00:09:44] Speaker C: That story creates the emotional response in your body. Absolutely. Whether the rejection. They. They don't have time for me. I'm not important to them. Or they're too, you know, whatever. They're so important. They're too busy, you know, or really, it's just about. Oh, man, they forgot they had a doctor appointment and they have to go to the doctor. That's happened between us. Like, I can't tell you how I do. Okay. I love you. And also, I cannot do this. Yeah. It's the story. It's that time in between. And that's where the information lies. [00:10:14] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:10:15] Speaker C: Right. [00:10:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:10:17] Speaker C: The thing happens. Then there's all this, like, the brain's like, oh, wait, I felt this. Brain's like, calculating, calculating, calculating. Where has this happened before? And then, boom. [00:10:26] Speaker B: And then you can then, like, yeah. [00:10:29] Speaker C: Reaction. Yeah. It's not the same thing, and it's not the same person, and it's not the same time, and it's not the same reason. [00:10:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is the biggest invitation and the biggest freedom that you give yourself when you create the space between the thought and the truth. Because, again, thoughts are not facts. And we're not saying don't think thoughts, because that's weird. You can't actually do that. Like, but you don't have to kajillion. You don't have to fight the thought. You don't have to shame yourself for having the thought or turn into this toxic positivity and immediately try to place it with sunshine and rainbows and make it positive and make it mean something. But the space is inviting in the noticing of the language or the noticing of how you are crafting the story from like, she's mad at me to I'm telling myself that she's mad at me because has she actually said that? And that shift in the language of she is this. To I'm telling myself this tells your brain that this is a thought you're having. Not necessarily the fact that noticing when [00:11:36] Speaker C: you're narrating, like, noticing when you've stepped outside and you're actually now the narrator of the story, you're like. And you. The character is going, wait, you want me to stage, right? And like, it's confusing. And you're like, no, that's not what's actually happening. [00:11:50] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:11:52] Speaker C: And then it's a habit, that diligence, right? [00:11:54] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [00:11:55] Speaker C: Like, it's something. [00:11:56] Speaker B: You got to build that muscle, isn't it? Like, it's very easy to just go with the story. Like, that's what you've always done. But to challenge the story and then, like, even challenge your. What evidence am I using? Am I making this up with myself? [00:12:10] Speaker C: Right. [00:12:10] Speaker B: I think now that's why AI Hallucinates, because we do the same thing. Like, it just be making stuff up. [00:12:15] Speaker C: It's like you say to yourself, what sorcery is my brain doing right now? Like, I don't know. I feel like this is, you know, this happened. But then there's a movie that shows how it plays out. But then that's. Is that really. It's just like that questioning, Right. That not everything we feel is in response to an actual thought. [00:12:37] Speaker B: Something that's true. [00:12:38] Speaker D: Right? [00:12:38] Speaker C: A truth. Generally, the emotional response is connected to something from very long ago that you might not know. [00:12:45] Speaker B: Was that. Yeah. Giving ourselves that space gives us a choice of how we want to respond. And we. We make a bazillion choices a day. But you can choose with practice to. To respond rather than react. You can choose it. In that choice, that's where your liberation comes. How do I want to move forward off of this story that may or may not be true? [00:13:10] Speaker C: Something happens and you have a thought, you can pause and you can choose. [00:13:17] Speaker B: Choose your own adventure. Like, did y' all read the books? [00:13:20] Speaker C: You can choose to react because this is what you think it means. Or you could choose to just be like, okay, take a moment. This is feeling this in my body. I wonder why. Must be attached to something old. That's not really what's happening. And I'm just going to respond differently. [00:13:36] Speaker B: Oh yeah, respond differently. So just because I like. I like poking holes and things and changing it up a little bit is one of my favorite. Poking holes and things and connecting dots too, obviously, those are two of my favorite things to do. There is another side of this that we actually want to make room for because I feel like it's a slippery slope when we just blanket say that thoughts are not facts. It can be quickly a way that we talk ourselves out of what we know. Like to a certain extent we can gaslight ourselves into thoughts aren't facts. And sometimes you're overreacting. Sometimes you are imagining it, the thought is accurate. But sometimes someone is actually upset with you and maybe they didn't say it. Sometimes you did make a mistake, or sometimes like something is off and your intuition in inviting it into the story creation process is a beautiful piece of it that I don't want to just. Thoughts aren't facts and that's it, right? [00:14:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:45] Speaker B: Yes, they are not facts. But sometimes the facts support the thought that you are having. So our goal isn't to tell you, like, don't trust your thoughts because you know, they just do whatever they want to do. It's like your thoughts also deserve the same level of examination as you would give for anything else. So that's what I want to say. [00:15:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:05] Speaker B: Not a blanket statement. [00:15:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm sure that feels better to say that. Like we're not just saying this one thing. But it is profoundly amazing when you start to become aware of your thoughts, when you start to wake up to what's happening, what the brain is doing. I'm just gonna process like I used to process, like I always process. I'm gonna keep it processing this way because that's what I know and that's what's comfortable and that's what's safe for us. So that's what I'm gonna do. Thank you, brain. Also, I'm growing in a different way now where I'm gonna create some new pathways. And so let's work together. [00:15:43] Speaker B: Yeah, let's work together. You may give yourself that space and examine the thought and be like, nope, it's still true. Like that. That is true. It's actually true now. I've done the things I've from the thing and nope, that's still true. Okay, now you are responding rather than automatically reacting based on our first interpretation. Because we don't want to create or promote this idea that you can't trust Yourself. Right. [00:16:09] Speaker C: In fact, literally, we're all about self. Like, if you're feeling something in your [00:16:14] Speaker B: mind, then you examine that. Like, examine the feeling and trace it back to where it came from and inviting you to be more discerning about what deserves your trust. Does the story, the negative story that you're telling yourself deserve your trust? Or is there something else going on? So that's. That is the actual invitation. [00:16:33] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well said. And thank you for clarifying that. I think that was really well said. [00:16:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Yeah, that was really well said. And I'm also about to poke another hole in. It's about the Swiss cheese over here today, y'. All. So I am not. And I feel like I could speak for you too, Karen. It's like, we are not asking you to interrogate every thought that floats through your head today. Because that sounds exhausting because you just said that. So that is not. [00:17:10] Speaker C: We. [00:17:11] Speaker B: Not every. Everyone. [00:17:13] Speaker C: Not every thought's equally important first. [00:17:15] Speaker B: But if you have noticed this pattern, there may be the one thought that it's worth catching. Like, that is the one. Because there may be some emotional charge, as we were saying, that has come behind it that you should get curious about. [00:17:29] Speaker C: Yes. Yes. It's when the thought that may. May keep coming up in different scenarios leads to a certain emotional reaction that does not feel good in your body. Doesn't feel. [00:17:41] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:17:42] Speaker C: And that's. That's when you want to do a little forensics there. Right? [00:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Because again, we are not trying to convince ourselves of the happiest explanation for whatever that thought is. Like, that's not good at all. That is not it. [00:17:56] Speaker C: I feel like that's the whole connection. That's the thing. The takeaway is we want you to. We're inviting you to. The takeaway is that we're inviting. [00:18:03] Speaker B: I want you to. I do want you to, too. [00:18:05] Speaker C: Terrible. Invite you to. Which is classic. That's classic to just notice your thoughts. [00:18:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:14] Speaker C: Not everyone, as we said, but notice the thoughts that cause some kind of a reaction or an emotion or some kind of a. Maybe unwelcome, like what might seem like an overreaction. Or just notice, like, oh, when I think that thought, that doesn't feel great. Like, it. Just find the connection and see if you can sort of. It's almost like, what do they do? Like, if you have a blood blister, right, you use a little hypodermic, you know, alcohol swabbed needle, and you pop that puppy. So you want to just kind of take the air out of you or take the pressure out of you. Want to be like, we leave that and just. Just, like, disconnect those two. [00:18:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And in doing that, like, it's staying curious about the things. So that if. If nothing else, we invite you to curiosity. Yeah. [00:19:06] Speaker C: If nothing else, we invite you to [00:19:08] Speaker B: say, yeah, curiosity and learning about yourself, learning yourself better, trusting yourself and figuring out who you are, how you show up and just be in the world. Like, yeah, that's. That's it. That's all. [00:19:22] Speaker C: That's just what we're asking. It's not it. We just want you to notice. Is it your thought? Is it somebody else's thought? Is it society's thought? Like, where's the thought coming from? What does it lead you to? What does it lead you to feel? And is it serving your ultimate, highest good? Is it serving the real purpose, why you're here? Is it serving joy and love and gratitude? And if not, ditch it. [00:19:46] Speaker B: Ditch it. Oh, please tell me. [00:19:49] Speaker C: Please tell me you picked a song called ditch It. [00:19:52] Speaker B: I did not. But a song that I feel invites the curiosity and learning yourself. I hadn't heard this song in, like, forever. Is New Soul by Yael Naim. [00:20:11] Speaker A: Check out this week's song on the YO Podcast playlist on Spotify. [00:20:20] Speaker C: I cannot say enough about that instrumentation, especially the French. [00:20:24] Speaker B: H. Well, you bring in the brass. [00:20:28] Speaker C: I mean, oh, my God, that was amazing. I love it so much. No, I had never heard that. 2007, it said, oh, gosh, that's almost [00:20:37] Speaker B: 20 years ago now. [00:20:38] Speaker C: Feel so good. Make I'm a new soul making every possible mistake. Like, we are here to make mistakes and learn. [00:20:44] Speaker B: Like, I am a new soul coming into this strange world. [00:20:48] Speaker C: It's a straight. It is wild, man. [00:20:50] Speaker B: Oh, this is what we doing. I came here for this. Okay, I agree to this. What side Thinking. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. [00:21:00] Speaker C: So good. So good. [00:21:01] Speaker B: That was so much fun. That was. That was a fun song. So it is, of course, time for our wonderful question of the day. [00:21:11] Speaker C: Oh, boy. [00:21:12] Speaker B: I was feeling super C. That's right. Till I. Till I do. The dramatic pause when you don't have. Have all the information. What does your brain usually make up? So what is your go to? Or maybe not anymore, but what was your go to story? [00:21:30] Speaker C: I mean, it's still wrapped in there, right? Yeah, for me, it goes to judgment. It goes to, like, I'm being judged or I am judging myself about something, and it's unfair and it's. You know, there's a little bit of, like, maybe there's Some shame in there. Yeah, that's. That's what it is for me. It's about. [00:21:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:51] Speaker C: I think it gets down to that root cause of, like, worthiness. Right. That we all sort of feel on some level. [00:21:57] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:21:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:58] Speaker B: Totally understand that. My go to fill in is try to make a prediction and sometimes personalize it. So I'm like. I'm trying to make it make sense. Like, you know, you hear me? Make it make sense. Like, so I'm trying to predict or even look at what the pattern has been, and then personalizing that pattern and making it about me. Because I'm trying. I just said earlier, like, connecting the dots. Like, that is what I'm like. I'm trying to. The dots is. The dots are not dot. And right. So now I got to start over. Like, what? And then I'm filling it in based off historical external information, and it still don't make sense. [00:22:35] Speaker C: Cerebral. Izing it. You're, like, going in with the brain. [00:22:38] Speaker B: Listen, y', all. That is the work that me and my therapist did because I am very, very good at intellectualizing a feeling. [00:22:46] Speaker C: Yes, ma', am. You are. [00:22:47] Speaker B: I. I am really good. Yeah. I. I, like. I'm like. I'd say so. Yes. I'm trying to predict and make it make sense, but now there is a bit more of compassion and outsideness. And I'm like, okay, well, I don't. I don't know what. I don't know, so. Could be anything. [00:23:02] Speaker C: Exactly. Right. I think something really, really freeing is the idea of keeping yourself separate or, like, feeling, like, feeling of detachment. Yes. Right. [00:23:12] Speaker B: Yes. [00:23:12] Speaker C: Not in a, like, an antisocial, like, no kind of weird way, but just, like, staying detached because you don't. You don't know. You don't have all the information. And even if you did have all the information, you don't have to ride the ride just because you're standing in line. [00:23:26] Speaker B: And I mean, as I'm in class number two of stats, like, you can make a hypothesis that don't mean it's true. It's just a guess. [00:23:35] Speaker C: It's a guess. I mean, honestly, it's all just. We're all giving it our best guess. [00:23:40] Speaker B: It's our best. So, yeah. Detaching ourselves from the meaning that we've made it out to be, attaching ourselves from all of the biggest waves that we're writing. So. [00:23:54] Speaker C: And. And depersonalizing, because you use that word, personalize it. Like, depersonalize. It'd be like, literally about anything. Has nothing to do with me. [00:24:02] Speaker B: And I Like, I'm good. [00:24:03] Speaker C: I feel good in my body and I'm cool. [00:24:06] Speaker B: I like the depersonalization, but that ain't got nothing to do with me. That sounds like a you problem. And I mean that in love. It's not mean, it's you. [00:24:14] Speaker C: Yeah, right. [00:24:15] Speaker B: Oh, all right. I have a quote from Greek philosopher Epictetus. I had to say it real fast because I was about to mess this man's name up again. Epictetus. [00:24:27] Speaker C: Somebody just glossed through all this. Yeah, all those consonants real quick. [00:24:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Epictetus said, men are disturbed not by things, but by the views which they take of things. [00:24:43] Speaker C: It's not the things or the events or the circumstances. It's our story about them or it's our feelings about them. It's our perspective about them. Right. It's not good or bad, right or wrong. It just is. Detachment comes in. [00:24:55] Speaker B: It just is. Karen, myself, Epictetus, everyone, we're not saying like that the circumstances don't matter, because the circumstances do matter. But what also matters is our interpretation. Like, your interpretation is part of the experience too. It's not just removed from it. Like, whoo, Pause. The power of the pause. The power of the pause. The power of the pause. The power of the pause. That's the summary. [00:25:22] Speaker C: That's where we end. The end. Like, you can't say something like that four times and think that anything else is going to come after that. Even though I am still saying words, I don't even know why I'm saying them. Because the power of the pause. [00:25:35] Speaker B: Power of the pause. So, explorer, may you stay curious about what you know, what you're assuming, and what else might also be true. Give yourself the space to choose what deserves your trust. [00:25:50] Speaker C: May you have discernment. May you have compassion for you and others, and may you know how valuable and loved and worthy you are. We are so glad you joined us today. We love you. Take good care. [00:26:06] Speaker D: Thank you to Queenies in downtown Durham for the use of their community podcast studio and for welcoming us so warmly each week. [00:26:16] Speaker C: We'd like to give a shout out [00:26:17] Speaker D: to Coco Cinnamon, the birthplace of 1023 Media and the yo podcast. 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