Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to youo Odyssey podcast, where your guides, Tara and Karen invite you on a transformative journey toward wholeness and personal growth.
Each week, we'll discuss topics related to the human experience and offer insights to help you along the way.
Please note, this podcast should not replace medical care or advice.
We are not licensed healthcare professionals or mental health therapists.
If you enjoyed today's episode, subscribe so you don't miss out on our future discussions.
So, explorers, let's dive into today's episode.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: Hey, explorers, it's Tara. We are really glad that you're here with us today.
This episode seems really important because of the moment that we are living in.
Things feel really sharp now.
Fast, reactive, edgy baby. Yes. Outrage travels far, farther and faster than understanding. Defensiveness feels safer than curiosity. And hardness that often gets mistaken for strength.
[00:01:27] Speaker C: Oh, man.
Yeah.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: So today we want to talk about a different kind of courage.
Not the kind that raises its voice, but the kind that still changes the room.
We're talking about kindness as courageous. All right, Karen, when you hear kindness is courage, what's stirring up for you? Because there is a lot of. Ooh, Amens.
[00:01:51] Speaker C: There is. Because I'm just thinking, like we do. We end up building, like, walls with barbed wire, jagged things around our hearts, and we end up holding really hard and fast to what we know is true and what we think is right. And that leads to defensiveness. When if we could just step outside of it and remember that. That we are all the same. That we are all literally the same energy, the same molecules from the same, like, stardust, if you will.
I really feel like that would dissolve it. And kindness, I think, is the most direct route.
Kindness and curiosity, as you said, because we don't have it all figured out. And if humanity could just get to the point where it'd be like, oh, damn, we actually don't have all the answers. We don't have it all figured out. And there is not a right and a wrong way. Right. It's not binary. It's not polarity. It's not right. There's many things and many truths along the spectrum. And if we could all just remember that we're all in this together and that we can be kind not only to others, but to ourselves, it would really shift the dynamic of that is.
[00:03:04] Speaker B: The dream and that is the hope. So we often think that courage is something that's very loud, like it's associated with confrontation or boldness or force. But I really think that kindness gets misfiled. Like, kindness is misfiled as Weakness as avoidance as people pleasing.
And I think it's really important that we and explorers challenge that idea. Because gentleness is not the absence of strength. It's strength under control. Like, gentle giant. Like, that's what comes to mind when you're talking about someone like, oh, they are like this big, loving teddy bear.
And this episode really is not about being agreeable, and it's not about staying silent when harm is present.
And it's definitely not about abandoning yourself just to keep the peace.
[00:03:57] Speaker C: Right, right.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: Just go ahead and clear that up.
[00:04:00] Speaker C: Yeah. Just make sure you know that as we're heading in. Right. Because often the kindest acts and the kindest way that we can be in the world, it is to be who we are and to speak from that place of deep truth and values and beliefs and love. And that is not synonymous with being a pushover at all, in fact. Right.
Like, there is nothing stronger in my mind. I mean, the word courage comes from the Latin for the heart. There's nothing stronger than living from the place of your heart, like the deep, true place of your heart, not the fenced in with the barbed wire, but, like, your true feeling. And I believe deep down we all want the same things. We all want to give and receive love. We all want to experience fulfillment and purpose and especially for our children to just be a kinder and gentler place.
[00:04:53] Speaker B: I love that you said love. I like this idea that we can let love shape how we respond, especially in those times when it could be so easy to stay. Hard to stay. Stay callous, to keep the barbed wire up, if you will.
And if our kindness, if our love is rooted in integrity, like you said, that is a lot more courageous than what we give it credit for.
[00:05:19] Speaker C: Like, absolutely.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: So brave to show up.
We talk a little bit about, like, how anger is like, that superficial emotion. That's what I believe. Like, anger is a superficial emotion. Like, oh, yeah, I'm really angry, but okay, I'm angry.
[00:05:33] Speaker C: It's masking something.
[00:05:35] Speaker B: Yes, I'm angry, angry. And this big, loud, angry reaction, like, that's very easy. Like, it's easy to do that.
And this day and age, I find, like, the quick comebacks, the sharpness or, oh, that escalated quickly. Like, that gets all of the attention, that gets all of the applause when kindness and courage, and kindness in the form of courage ask us for something a little bit different.
Right.
[00:06:03] Speaker C: It's that pause and it's that unplugging from the reactivity and just allowing love to sort of seep in and see the situation from a different angle, from.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: A different perspective, because anybody can escalate. Anybody. On a recent episode, we were against. I was like, I used to be ready to rumble. Like, yeah, let's get ready to rumble. Like, yeah, exactly. That's easy. Yeah, that's the go to ready, let's go.
[00:06:29] Speaker C: I think if we could all sort of come to the understanding that when there's that defensiveness and that anger, it's because that big old energy is trying to protect our sweet little hearts that feel vulnerable and raw. Accessing that vulnerable, raw place and allowing it to shine its light and to be seen, that is the bravest, most courageous thing you will ever do.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And this courage that we were asking and inviting you into, it isn't loud, it doesn't announce itself, and it doesn't really dominate the room, but it definitely shifts the tone. Karen, you said a little bit earlier about how, like, it will change the atmosphere of the world, so to speak, if we moved from that place of love and kindness and courage in that sense.
[00:07:18] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:07:19] Speaker B: This courageous kindness, it de escalates. It keeps people human. Even when stuff gets real heavy and real messy.
Seeing the humanity on the other side of the aisle, the fence, the whatever, like, that's what keeps us quietly courageous.
I guess the question, Karen, is like, when you see this quiet courage show up, like, where do you see that happen? Is it in those moments when people are choosing to be soft instead of hard, or what else do you notice about the quiet courage that shows up.
[00:07:56] Speaker C: In myself, in others? You're talking about in the.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: All of the above.
[00:07:59] Speaker C: Having lived decades from a place of protective, defensive, sort of throwing the Heisman, being ready to throw it at anybody who comes, like, even close to the perimeter because of all the work that I've been doing on self love and self awareness and, you know, forgiving myself for what I didn't understand or know in the past and for behaving certain ways that weren't really true to who I really am. I'm just noticing that when I can be aware of that feeling, it's usually around the center of my torso. When I start feeling constriction there and tightness, because I feel defensive, it's because somebody is treading closely to something that is important to me or feels vulnerable.
And if I can notice that soon enough, I can breathe deeply through it and just lean in.
I can lean in. I can ask certain questions, I can respond a certain way and not feel necessarily defensive or triggered, but compassionate.
And that is for myself and others. Right. So usually when I'm feeling that, it's because I have probably have history with whoever the other person or people are, so. And out in the world.
What I'd like to do is train my eyes and my heart and my mind to notice when I see people smiling or sharing acts of kindness and just having, like, a moment, like, even in the grocery store, two people that don't know each other just being like, you know, like just a moment of, like, kindness or compassion, I feel like there is just such a beautiful energy around that. And so I'm working on training myself to notice those moments and kind of amplify them and just appreciate them, because I think moments like that, we can be oblivious to it. Like, I gotta get the milk and the bread and I gotta get out of here. But if you pause and you kind of take in on a higher level what's happening. There's a lot of beautiful exchanges happening. And if we give our attention, just notice it. We don't have to say anything. We don't have to be in on it. You just notice it. I think that amplifies it energetically. Like, that beautiful moment, which was already rippling, now gets rippled even farther.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: I do love, like, the awareness, the noticing of other acts of kindness and compassion that we see.
Like, we. I know for me, like, when I see that, like, oh, I would, like, I'm inspired to move and be the same way. Like, oh, wow, this person opened the door for me or held the door for me or handed me this, or asked if I need a da, da, da. It's like, oh, well, let me go ahead and pay this kindness forward. Let me go ahead and move in a way that someone else can.
I don't want to say benefit, because it's not even like, a direct benefit, but can, like, soak some of the kindness up. Like, let me move from that place as well.
[00:11:08] Speaker C: Yeah. I just had this crazy visual, this metaphor. I just pictured a plate with, like, extra gravy on it.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Yeah.
[00:11:17] Speaker C: And, like, you want to sop it up, right? Like, you want to be like, hey, there's all this, like, everybody take a piece of bread and sop this up. Like, this is. This beautiful thing is happening. Let's sop it up, and let's all sort of get a taste of it. And I think that that's so beautiful when we can notice when someone's doing something kind for us. Like, don't just brush it off as, like, oh, thanks, you know, but be. Just be like. Like, let that affect your behavior as you just said. Like let that ripple out from you then to how can I also share this?
[00:11:44] Speaker B: All right, so let's talk a little bit about kindness versus niceness.
Oh, I.
And that sentiment is exactly why I know that's where things get tricky.
[00:12:00] Speaker C: You know that word nice is such a trick. That's a trigger for me.
[00:12:04] Speaker B: No, thank you. I mean, I am guilty. Like, be nice. Like, be nice. Because like kindness and niceness look really similar on the outside, but they are not the same thing. Being nice to me seems like we're avoiding discomfort, we are prioritizing others approval and we are just out here, you know, we just gonna keep it quiet so things stay calm so we don't rock the boat.
[00:12:29] Speaker C: Yes. Being nice is like this sugar coated sweetness that doesn't really get down to the core of the situation. You know what I mean?
[00:12:37] Speaker B: It's just glossing over we on the surface of the water.
[00:12:40] Speaker C: But kindness, kindness goes deep, right?
[00:12:43] Speaker B: It goes deep and it knows how to tell the truth with care. Like we're not just pretending that this behavior or this situation is okay with us. Like we are approaching the truth for what matters in this moment with care. Like, we're not being mean. Like, I don't feel like the opposite of kindness is meanness. No, no.
Like, oh man, that's a big.
[00:13:09] Speaker C: I'm so glad you brought that up. I'm so glad you brought that up.
[00:13:13] Speaker B: Be nice. Because this niceness protects our approval ratings, but kindness more generously protects our integrity.
[00:13:24] Speaker C: Say that again.
I just. When she dropped it. No, when she drops something like that, I'm like, you have got to say that again.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: Niceness protects approval. Kindness protects integrity.
I don't care about my approval ratings. I'm not here for that.
[00:13:41] Speaker C: You feel comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. I'm not gonna nice it all over. I will be kind and ask a few questions.
Maybe take a different look.
[00:13:50] Speaker B: Yes. Like I just said, like I've said it. Like I don't even know how long I've been saying this. Like, I want you to be wrong about me because I'm not here trying to seek your approval, be in your good graces, quote unquote, to speak. Like, I want to make sure that how I'm living, how I'm showing up is true for me. I want to live and move from integrity. I'm not trying to join the bandwagon of being be nice. No.
Oh, you mean, okay, sure, right, like.
[00:14:18] Speaker C: Yeah, to so many people, be nice means don't say the Thing.
[00:14:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:22] Speaker C: Don't rock the boat. Don't speak up.
And that is part of the freaking problem. That is how we got where we are.
Let's be kind and let's take a look, then let's go deep.
[00:14:35] Speaker B: Like if you're being nice or not doesn't really matter. It's like, are you being kind? Because this kindness is not asking you to disappear. It's asking you to stay honest. It's asking you to be humane. Like.
[00:14:53] Speaker C: Asking you to notice some things that you might not necessarily be comfortable noticing about yourself.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: All right, so since you had this very big reaction to this versus niceness, what helps you differentiate. Oh, dear. Between being kind versus being nice at your own expense?
[00:15:19] Speaker C: Being kind comes from a deeper. I feel it deeper, lower in my body.
Being nice feels like it's up here and it feels like it's performative and it feels like it's not real.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: Being nice is performative.
[00:15:37] Speaker C: Being nice is like, let's all just be nice and pretend that nothing is real or nothing is happening or we're not all feeling these intense emotions and hiding them.
Being nice, like you said, it's like a gloss over. It's like a shellac. Right. It's like you're. But it's like you're shellacking gravel. Right. There's so many cracks, so many things you can'.
So kindness is like going down underneath the gravel and being like, what? Let's notice what's happening. You know, let's have a conversation from there. Yeah.
[00:16:07] Speaker B: Awareness of where kindness shows up in your body versus where niceness comes from. I think, too, like, not just in your chest or throat, but there's also like this head component. Like, what should I do in this moment? What.
What are people expecting of me? Or how does culture or society frame how I am showing up?
[00:16:30] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:16:31] Speaker B: Imma just be me and this just. It's gonna be what it is. I'm going to still be kind. I'm going to be honest.
[00:16:38] Speaker C: Right. What does decorum ask for? What in the 1800s, word is that decorum?
What even, like what? Decorum? No. How about real? Let's do that. Yeah.
[00:16:50] Speaker B: We were talking about the ripple effects of kindness and, like, how witnessing it inspires change in our being.
And that is actually like one of the most beautiful things about kindness. It doesn't really need a stage. It's not the performance.
The acts of kindness are small, sometimes unremarkable, and easy to miss.
And in conversation, I feel that kindness shows up in our tone.
It shows up in our timing. It shows up in restraint. It shows up in our presence. Okay. This is the line that my grandmother used to say. It's not what you say, bring it, grandma, but how you bring it, grandma. So that's the tone. Like, you can be syrupy sweet and. Oh, that's nice. But is it kind of like.
[00:17:44] Speaker C: Right. Like, there's all kinds of layers of meaning. A lot of times between, like, below. Nice. That has the exact opposite effect. Right. Because you're like, that is not true. Nor does that feel good.
[00:17:56] Speaker B: And then, like, the timing piece, when it comes to kindness, like, not everything demands your attention in that moment. Sometimes the kindest thing that you can do is wait for the right time. If someone's very emotional, very volatile right now, that might not be the right time to address the situation, which leads to the restraint. Like, pull back a little bit.
[00:18:18] Speaker C: Discernment.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:18:19] Speaker C: Restraint is the discernment.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah, your discernment.
[00:18:22] Speaker C: And that's. That's. That's a muscle I'm working on.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Yes. You know, we have so many opportunities to practice, so build our kindness muscle. But kindness doesn't always feel heroic.
But it absolutely changes the relational climate. Over time, the more kindness that we pour out into the world, the relational climate will shift.
And that goes for your personal relationships and the world at large.
[00:18:53] Speaker C: Absolutely. Life is relational. We are all in relation to one another, humanly, with all the other species on the earth, with the earth itself, with the actual climate, with nature. It's all relational. And we've gotten really terrible at it, quite honestly. We're forgetting that we're all literally dependent on each other and connected. And the more that we live under the illusion of separation, the more challenging things are going to get. Because the bottom line is we are not separate.
And being kind to another is just meaning we're kind to ourselves as well.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: It's just.
[00:19:34] Speaker C: It's all connected, right?
[00:19:36] Speaker B: Oh, it absolutely is connected. I love the idea of being connected because when we are kind, we are being safe spaces for ourselves and others, which ultimately shapes who we are in relationship with others.
[00:19:51] Speaker C: You know what I think supports kindness, too, is remembering that it's actually not all about you.
Like, imagine that, like me, like, if I'm in a situation where I'm going to spend time with someone in my family, let's say.
Good example. Right. Very basic.
[00:20:08] Speaker B: I.
[00:20:11] Speaker C: Don'T have to internalize everything that's going on as a judgment on me, even energetically. Like, if there's some thoughts and feelings going on that feel negative or Critical.
They're not about me. I don't need to take that on. And if I were to, that would make me feel more defensive and reactionary. But I can notice and have compassion for whatever that person is saying and going through. It doesn't have anything to do with me. It is their journey and their experience.
And if I'm reflecting it to myself, it's because I got some baggage about that myself that I will check in with later. But in that moment, I don't need to take that on. I can just be right, holding this loving, kind space and that right there.
[00:21:00] Speaker B: Like, that is the courageous act. That is how you stay steady. Even if they try to go, you know, on a wild. What is a squall? Like, they trying to take you out into the squall. And they're like, come on.
[00:21:13] Speaker C: They're like, come on, get in.
Like, I'm stay right here on this.
[00:21:16] Speaker B: You're like, no, I am steady. I am safe here.
And this situation is not about me. I'm good.
[00:21:25] Speaker C: This is your squall. You don't have to go out there. But if you're going to go out there, I will wave to you from solidarity.
[00:21:30] Speaker B: I'll see you when you get back.
[00:21:32] Speaker C: And it's not about me.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: It's not about you. Oh, my gosh. Removing yourself from someone else's narrative. Yes.
[00:21:40] Speaker C: That act of kindness.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: Listen, okay, I got a song. I don't even know, like, what else can be said after that. Okay, so I have a song that. It is a beautiful reminder, like, to stay strong, to not be aggressive, to stay grounded. And I know Karen's like, what song? This song.
[00:21:59] Speaker C: I'm like, I'm gonna go through my Rolodex.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: This song is I Won't Back down by Tom Petty.
[00:22:11] Speaker A: Check out this week's song on the YO Podcast playlist on Spotify.
[00:22:19] Speaker B: Gotta pretend we ain't got a posture. That is the exact type of courage that we're talking about. Because the world is asking you to be nice, to do it this way. Be kind, be rebellious and be kind.
[00:22:30] Speaker C: We don't have to go on the offensive, but we can be so very strong in our.
In our dedication to resolute kindness. It's like, yeah, this is how I choose to be in the world.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Yes.
That was so fun. Like, yeah, this kindness isn't asking you or saying or requiring you to raise your voice. You can be kind and be quiet and hold your ground and just be okay and be steady. All right.
[00:23:02] Speaker C: Steady strength is so often steady and kind.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Of amen. Okay, it's time for today's question Q.
[00:23:13] Speaker C: O T D.
Here we go.
103 questions. I have born and gone through fire.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: I think this is going to be a fire question today.
[00:23:24] Speaker C: I'm sure it's not.
[00:23:26] Speaker B: How is kindness asking you to be braver, not quieter?
Kindness is asking me to be braver in those moments where it's easy or easier to be hard. So rather than activating my defense system, stay soft, to stay vulnerable. Because that's real. That is moving from integrity that we spoke about earlier, like choosing softness, when it would be so easy to default back into being hard or even going up against something that's hard. Like the. The way that you counter that is by being soft, by being loving, by being kind. So that kindness is asking me in those moments to choose softness. Choose softness.
[00:24:15] Speaker C: It is a choice, right? There's the discernment. There's that. That pause, that moment of, well, I could do this or do that. I could be this or be that. I. I think you said it so well. I would say in those moments where I feel a little bit of a trigger or something in my body, that's what I pay attention to and wonder at a later time what that means for me. But also remember to.
To shift into softness, into allowing, and to just witnessing or noticing without pushing back against.
Yeah, I think. I think that's really beautiful.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah. This episode is about kindness, is courage, and it's also in our Love Catalyst story arc. And I had basically no other choice but to pull from, like, my favorite book in the entire world.
I had to go. I had to go Bible verse on y'. All. Like, I had. I like, how could we not?
[00:25:25] Speaker C: She has to, my friend. She has to.
[00:25:27] Speaker B: I, like, I had, like, it literally.
[00:25:30] Speaker C: In every cell of her body.
[00:25:31] Speaker B: This was the quote, is, love is patient.
Love is kind. It does not envy. It does not boast. It is not proud.
[00:25:45] Speaker C: That is love. That is the true definition of love.
It does not defend. It does not. It doesn't have to be bigger than. Doesn't have to be pushy, can be sto. I don't want to use the word stoic silently.
Strongly kind.
[00:26:02] Speaker B: One of my favorite practices with that is to sub in my name.
Tara is patient. Tara is kind. She does not envy. She does not boast. Like, she is not proud. Like, when I, like, that's like, the quick little check. Oh, am I being patient? Oh, if I cannot sub my name in, that's the area where I know, like, I need to grow Let me. Let me do the check. Is it? Nope. That's not very kind. That's not very patient.
[00:26:30] Speaker C: I love that practice because we talk about this all the time, but at the end of the day, in my opinion, this has been my experience of the big love. We are inherently and at the most root of ourselves, we are love in human form, love in physical expression.
And so if we can use that as a moment to put our tiny self into the big self name of love. Right, Tara, Karen. Love. Right. It's such a beautiful practice. I love that.
[00:27:03] Speaker B: It is a beautiful reminder about how this love and this kindness isn't something like that we fall into, but it's how we show up, it's how we move. We are patient, we are kind. We are not proud. We don't envy. Those aren't like, sentimental nice to have qualities like those qualities are very disciplined.
[00:27:26] Speaker C: It is a conscious, committed choice every day to show up that way.
[00:27:31] Speaker B: And that is the kind of love, the kind of presence that takes restraint, it takes maturity, and it most definitely takes courage, especially in those moments when reacting would be a lot easier than staying steady, than staying grounded.
[00:27:49] Speaker C: This has been a good teachable episode for me. This has been a huge reminder of like, okay, yep, that's what's holding. That's what's holding the sale, right? That's love. Love is. Yeah.
[00:28:01] Speaker B: And kindness, the way that we've described it today isn't about being agreeable. It's not about avoiding hard conversations or making yourself smaller. It's choosing how to show up.
You could justify snapping back, shutting down or hardening your heart.
[00:28:18] Speaker C: Oh, hell yeah. All day long.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: You could justify it, but I feel the invitation is for love to be something that we practice on purpose. To practice kindness, not as niceness, not as self abandonment, but as a steady, courageous way of being.
[00:28:37] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
Yes. Preach, my sister.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: And it's not easy, but that's because it is formative. It is changing how we show up in the world, how we exist. So until next time, explore.
Be brave enough to stay kind, steady enough to stay patient, and grounded enough to stay true.
[00:29:00] Speaker C: Even if kindness is not your default, allow it to begin to bubble up and see how it affects your day and your interactions.
We love you so much, explorers. Thank you for being here with us. Take good care.
[00:29:19] Speaker D: Thank you to Queenies in downtown Durham for the use of their community podcast studio and for welcoming us so warmly. Each week we'd like to give a shout out to Coco Cinnamon, the birthplace of 1023 Media and the yo podcast. Please support your local women owned minority owned coffee shop in downtown Durham.
Brought to you by Durham based 1023 Media, a heart centered woman owned multimedia company.
